How did Jesus Make Disciples?

[David Saylor - admin]

It was great being in the cluster meeting yesterday.
As it turns out today I'm reading from a new book I downloaded free on Logos called "A Holy Ambition" by John Piper (info at: http://vyrso.com/dg) and in the second chapter is a discussion on what discipleship is from Matt. 28. which was very similar to what we discussed yesterday (particularly John). I thought you might want to check it out for yourself.

Have a blessed Christmas and I look forward to working together in the kingdom.

[Mark Smith]

Here's an excerpt that I think makes an important point:

Disciple Is a Verb

So if Jesus’ charge to “disciple all nations” is the heart of the Commission, what does he mean by this discipling? He does not mean the mere pursuit of conversion. That won’t work with what follows: “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” Teaching the nations “to observe all that I have commanded you” is not the mere pursuit of conversion. And if discipling all nations doesn’t mean simply classroom information-transfer, but “teaching to observe,” what must it entail?

At least it must entail spiritual maturity. And so this is how many well-meaning Christians today use the term discipleship—as a term for pursuing spiritual maturity. Being a “disciple,” they say, means being a serious, rather than casual, follower of Jesus. “Discipleship programs” are designed for those intentionally seeking Christian growth, so it goes. Maybe. But something seems to be lacking here.

John Piper, A Holy Ambition: To Preach Where Christ Has Not Been Named (Minneapolis, MN: Desiring God, 2011).[b] (Emphasis mine.)

Piper goes on to point out Jesus' method, which involved personal time with the 'disciples' is needed to understand this command.

The point I think I see here and feel on my own is that Jesus emphasizes both conversion and growing to maturity with the phrase 'make disciples.' Many discipleship programs omit the conversion aspect, rounding up people who have been Christians for some time and trying to help them move on to maturity (not a bad goal). If we are to model Christ the first step is going out and leading people to conversion, then taking those folks and helping them grow up in Christ. We too often skip that step. The conversion aspect of Christ's command cannot be overlooked, not only in determining who the subjects are for baptism and further teaching, but in multiplying disciples.

If a group goes through a church discipleship course and them divides up and forms additional groups of existing church members, this is what has happened. What we narrowly call discipleship misses the going and converting portion of what Jesus meant by 'make disciples.'

What do you think?

[josealopes]

I like the questions! I wanted to leave some thoughts and see what you think of them, as what Mark just said 'resounded' within me : )

I think too the conversion aspect is lost, or 'disconnected' with discipleship in many cases. The two are seen - in practice - as separate disciplines. The goal of evangelism is to bring people to the point of decision and conversion, and discipleship is seen as taking peope who are Christians - whether they have just come to Christ or have been following Him their entire lives - and trying to help them grow. Changing the culture to make the process one of 'sharing Christ to *make disciples* (and not converts)' is an important one - one that I am still trying to figure out.

Also, the key factor of 'spending time' with disciples is often at odds with many systems, which (maybe for a lack of resources and time?) construct larger group based teaching and a feedback (from the people being 'taught') as primary ways of growth. One on one/one on two discipleship is not the norm (at least in my experience) although is it possible to really do it another way? If so, should the structure be more like a tree of narrowly foused disciplers? I throw this out because structure is one of those things that, once you have, can make you flexible or inflexible - and I wonder for myself if that means radically altering my relationship struture to create that tree?

And as well, how *intentional* am I as a discipler? Systems are necessary - and so is the system/structure reinforcing an intentional discipling? One that requires the discipler(s) to intentionally invest? Or throw out instruction in the hopes that it is caught?

Just putting some thoughts down that have been rumbling around in m head for some time. I hope they aren't too jumbled : )

[Mark Angerosa]

Christ is central to this whole disciple-making process. They hear the gospel and are converted, placing their faith and trust in Christ, they are initiated (baptized) into the family of God in the name of Christ, they are instructed in the ways and teachings of Christ, and exercise their gifts and take on their responsibilities in the body of Christ. These are true followers.

I agree with Mark S. that classrooms do not necessarily make disciples. We often do a good job of "churchifying" saved persons; not always a good job of making saved persons Christ-followers. It may help if we keep the whole package together as one process. We shouldn't say we need "evangelism" or we need "conversion growth" or we need "better disciples", We should say, "we are called to follow Christ, and make followers of Christ".

Clearly conversion is essential to this process, and no real disciple-making can happen apart from it. So maybe the first questions should be: Do we know and understand the gospel...are we proclaiming the gospel...are we modeling the gospel and its power? Is the gospel, and its results, what the world sees and hears through our churches?

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